So about my factions... (LE -> SMAX balance thoughts)

[Yitzi]

Okay sure. I'll write out some very brief idealogies here:

True Arena
Believes in strength and power. Opens arenas to the public of all walks of life to test their combat skill against tough creatures and bosses. Very military orientated.

Very Spartan-like.  Say +2 MORALE, +1 SUPPORT, -1 GROWTH (due to casualties), -1 INDUSTRY (they're too busy fighting), free command center at every base.  Starts with Doctrine: Mobility.  POLICE immunity.  Favors Power, can't use Wealth.

Deadly Assassins
Seek enlightenment, very knowledge/ethereal sorts. Espionage and cloak and dagger tactics prevail.

Say +1 RESEARCH, +1 PROBE, +2 EFFICIENCY, -2 SUPPORT (not really into large armies), free covert ops at every base with tech.  Starts with Information Networks.  Free prototypes.  Knowledge impunity.  Favors Knowledge, can't use Police State.

The Betrayed
Former genetic experiments out for revenge in a big way. Everything must burn.

-2 GROWTH, -1 ECONOMY, -2 PLANET, +2 MORALE, +2 SUPPORT, fanatic.  Begins with Applied Physics and Biogenetics.  Favors Power, can't use Green.

Blackband's Pirates
Stereotypical pirate, take what you can and give nothing back.

Aquatic faction, +2 SUPPORT (they get most of their supplies from plunder), 1 drone every 4 citizens.  Begins with Doctrine:Flexibility.  Techsteal.  Favors Power, can't use Democracy.

CyndaTech Industries
Athiestic industrial state, seeking to eliminate painful emotions from life

+2 INDUSTRY, immunity POLICE (only needed if playing that -POLICE disables punishment spheres), free (and automatic) punishment spheres at every base ("no painful emotions" would eliminate unhappiness but also creativity).  Begins with Industrial Base and Social Psych.  All units get Trance for free (not much for worms to work on).  Favors Planned, can't use Fundamentalism.

Darrus' Adventurers
See themselves as the law keepers of the land, they build towns and most of their males go out and adventure

+50% council votes, +1 talent every 4 citizens, +1 MORALE, -1 GROWTH.  Every unit gets free Deep Radar with the appropriate tech.  Begins with Doctrine:Mobility.  Favors Wealth, cannot use Police State.

The Realm of Light
Loving, peaceful society. Christian, rather small.

2 free drones, 1 talent per 4 citizens, -2 MORALE, +1 GROWTH (good for family life).  Impunity to fundamentalism.  Begins with Social Psych.  Favors fundamentalism, cannot use Police State.

Oblivion's Fallen
Powerful, large faction. Incredibly hedonistic. Sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll here.

+2 GROWTH, +2 ECONOMY, -2 MORALE (lack of discipline), -2 POLICE, -2 PROBE, free rec commons.  1 drone per 3 citizens.  Begins with no techs, favors Free Market, can't use Fundamentalism.

The Community of Rakis
Peacemaker, normaliser faction. Wants to end wars and create world peace.

Double council votes, +1 commerce, -2 MORALE, -2 SUPPORT, -5 POLICE, 80% on offense.  Begins with Social Psych.  Favors Eudaimonia, can't use Police State.

Latios Express
Wants to bring people together by creating a flight network. He's all about flying and flying transport.

+2 commerce, -2 MORALE (he wants to bring people together, not kill them), begins with Doctrine: Air Power and 2 free scout choppers.  Gets a free Aerospace Complex at every base, and free drop pods with the appropriate tech.  Favors Free Market, cannot use Power. 

Spinda Café
All about opening cafes and item shops for people to enjoy. Customer satisafication.

+1 ECONOMY, +3 commerce, -1 INDUSTRY, -2 PROBE.  Begins with Social Psych.  Favors Free Market, cannot use Power.

Seafoam Collective
Their original islands were so crowded they had to expand. These are those people. Often looked down upon as living on other people's turf.

The fundamental principle makes no sense in SMAC(/X)...this is not doable.

Vixen's Path
Matriach society. Males are the warriors, survivors and victors get to breed, failures and weaklings get neutered and sent out to die. Women rule and run the cities.

+1 MORALE, -2 RESEARCH (half their population isn't contributing), fanatic, +20% on both offense and defense.  Begins with Doctrine:Mobility, favors Police State, cannot use Democracy.

Protectors of the Wild
Runs a series of ancient temples. Really just want to be left alone and defend themselves against all newcomers.

+2 PLANET, -2 ECONOMY, -2 POLICE.  Free Temple of Planet in every base, +20% psi combat.  Begins with Centauri Ecology and Centauri Empathy, favors Green, cannot use Free Market.

[Kilkakon]

Thanks Yitzi. Some of those ideas take them in a dramatically different direction to my mod, but it's cool to see that fresh, other perspective. I can use these as an alternative way to incorporate each individual faction if the original concept just doesn't carry across well. :nod:

[JarlWolf]

On terms of the Seafoam collective, I disagree with Yitzi. We just modify the idea a bit is all: Have it where they are an expansionist colonization group focused on growing their populations and industry on the sea. An industrialist/colonist faction essentially. For stats... if we are modifying them,

1+Industry, 1+ Growth, -1 Effic, -2 Planet? As for tech, doctrine flexibility or give them Doctrine Initiative, with Industrial Automation: They have large ships, and such but have a horrendous planet score and their rapid expansionism can cause problems with efficiency.

[Kilkakon]

Normally, Seaform start off with extra pods. That's their main thing. Seems like we're on the same track though Jarl, as in LE they take an Effic hit as well.

Cheers guys. In a few days or so I'll have a go at making some draft versions of the stats.

[JarlWolf]

Normally, Seaform start off with extra pods. That's their main thing. Seems like we're on the same track though Jarl, as in LE they take an Effic hit as well.

Cheers guys. In a few days or so I'll have a go at making some draft versions of the stats.

Maybe have it where they get extra pods, and start with doctrine initiative over doctrine flexibility: Have them start with larger ships first over small ones, which means they have big juggernaughts of ships, but they are costly to produce, especially so early on.

[Kilkakon]

Yeah that's cool. Have a bit of a nautical flavour in there perhaps~

[JarlWolf]

Also, while I know you stated that you wanted to keep the original graphics of your mod, I wouldn't mind doing some industrial overhaul thing for the Seafoam Collective, making their bases look like big industrial shipping yards or something.

Entirely up to you of course, but an offer none the less.

[Kilkakon]

Offer's appreciated.

There's certainly no harm in having more variants available if that's what people like. I mean, I'd already be shoving a naked and censored version of the pcx into the file, could always have a more futuristic one.

Some of the cities already fit rather well into SMAX, fortunately. My decision to stick with the original walls was a great one in hindsight. XD

[Kilkakon]

Just to let you guys know I am interested in doing this still, even if only a few have posted. I'll also finish off my Tomorrow and Acolyte factions too. Poor ete, his wiki isn't getting any love from my factions at the moment from their not-quite-finished-ness, haha XD

[ete]

Cool stuff, I've been meaning to post here with a load of balance suggestions but have had little time online to write up a big post for ages and there's a lot to reply to.

Very brief thoughts.. a fair few seem to operate on a higher power level than official factions (Assassins, Betrayed, Cynda), most seem like they should port directly without changes, and a few seem perhaps weak compared to existing factions (your pirates vs official pirates is the clearest example). Three factions seem fairly complex in a way I'm not familiar with so will have to play with/think a lot more to get much of an idea of balance:
The Betrayed due to the very large psi bonus without native capture ability - very interesting idea, wonder if building natives becomes worthwhile/too strong. Also, Manifold Nexus exists in basic SMAX which could tip their balance massively.
Oblivion's Fallen mostly due to five SE modifiers at once and a key facility. My gut feeling is they'd need a notable buff, or have their impunity set to another key SE choice (Democratic, any economic choice, or maaaybe power).
Latios Express due to free Psi gates and complex SE choice considerations. At -3 Support, they take a massive hit from democratic, the best builder politics, (-2 mins per unit), which could be mitigated by Power.. but they really want Wealth for +1 eng/square. They may end up balanced, and if they do they'll be a very unusual/interesting faction, but it's hard to see how their stats will interact with SMAX SE settings without more thought/play.

I'd encourage you to do a straight port, or as close as you can, and let the AI play through a handful of games. Should give a vague idea of who does well and not, though humans play quite differently.

[Kilkakon]

Oh right, well thanks Ete for making the post that you did. I will keep it in mind, particularly the power levels of the factions involved.

Betrayed in LE are all about building natives, yeah. With Brood Pits they become quite strong.

And yeah these Pirates have the nerfs they have due to the way the oceans work in LE, being high production.

Cheers guys. I have a busy week ahead but when I get a chance I will whip up a few prototypes and give them a whirl.

[Kilkakon]

Ah here's the thread! Found it

Bumped for thoughts.