Unit cost BUG (vote for solution, please)

[kyrub]

Even for Deep Radar. Trance, too: sometimes it's free, depending on the combination. Notice there are times when Deep Radar is combined with Trance: they are both free! So I don't really mind the mixture of No-Cost, Low-Cost, and Regular-Cost.

Trance is free with Nerve Gas or Police, but with AAA, Clean reactor, High Morale or Fungicide Tanks, it costs extra. Comm Jammer is free with Nerve Gas as well, but even with High Morale or Clean Reactor (unlike Trance). It costs extra with AAA, Cloaked, Drop, Amphi. Deep radar is always free, unless used with Super formers (this combo is clearly complicated for radar to work well).

Trance and Ecm together are completely free (0% extra cost), but Trance + Trained costs 175%.

This is incredible mess. Alpha Centauri is a rational game, a game made with clear and universal rules. The current "unit cost" has no clarity at all, and it's most probably unintended by the designers.

[gwillybj]

Okay, I think I didn't understand.
It isn't so much that one thing might cost more, normal, less, or free. It's the lack of consistency across-the-board in calculating those values when combinations are made. Is this a better understanding?

[ete]

gwillybj: Yes, that's what makes us think it's a bug.

[Yitzi]

The real question then is what proper functioning is: Clearly the +1 for two abilities was intended, the question is whether it was supposed to dis-apply for all free things and that got bugged, or was supposed to apply for all abilities and got bugged that way.  Based on how the bug works, I find the latter more likely, but I can code whatever the consensus says.  (If there's no clear consensus, I'll code it to apply the extra cost unless one of them is free, because that's in between what it does now and what the datalinks say.)

[kyrub]

My final vote goes for +1 for all combined abilities, including the free ones.

Most intuitive solution, universal "combining any 2 abilities => needs more cost" logic. There will be fairly little change done to the game as well, ECM+Clean garrisons will cost more, Trance police as well, but that's it.

[ete]

I'm for "combining two non-free abilities => needs more cost", having free abilities increase cost seems unintuitive to me. Letting them be thrown onto anything without being a problem seems positive.

[Earthmichael]

I agree with ete.

I don't mind the extra for 2 abilities, BUT I would like to see that only apply if both abilities are not free.  If one ability is free, then I would rather it not count at all, so adding this ability remains zero cost, even if the unit already has one other ability.

[BFG]

I could also see an argument for adding +0.5 cost for each non-free ability.  In other words, two freebies = 0 additional cost, one free and one costly = +0.5 additional cost, and two costly = +1 additional cost.  That seems like a decent compromise between the two opposing viewpoints here.

[Yitzi]

I could also see an argument for adding +0.5 cost for each non-free ability.  In other words, two freebies = 0 additional cost, one free and one costly = +0.5 additional cost, and two costly = +1 additional cost.  That seems like a decent compromise between the two opposing viewpoints here.

It'd also be way too difficult to code; the game does not account for fractional costs.

[ete]

The two viewpoints are "free abilities should always be free" and "two abilities should always add cost". Your suggestion is different from what was intended in the game, and would change the price of units with one ability which has cost, which no one wants.

[kyrub]

Added poll.

[BFG]

...and would change the price of (two-ability) units with one ability which has cost, which no one wants.

Well, I do...but it looks like I'm the only one 
Still, I can understand sticking to the original code only in this discussion.

[Earthmichael]

If this is fixed (and I definitely think it is a bug fix), I hope that it is added to both  the scient and kyrub patches (and any other popular patches) so that we have consistency.

My case for free things remaining free (even if a new ability is added) is simply ease of player understanding.  If someone adds a cost ability as a second ability, most players may not notice if it if it costs a bit more than expected.  But if someone adds a free ability, and the cost suddenly jumps up, it appears to the player as a bug (even if it is supposed to work that way); after all, a zero cost addition should result in no change, duh!!!  Any not everyone is going to read this post to figure out why, especially if it makes the unit cost more than it did before the patch.  So they just think the patch introduced a bug, which is not what we want people to think.

[Yitzi]

So it seems to be a tie, so we'll go with free abilities staying free.

[BFG]

So it seems to be a tie, so we'll go with free abilities staying free.

As Earthmichael stated, that does seem to make the most intuitive sense.  Given that there were only 6 votes, though, it seems either there were few strong opinions on the topic, or few people who were interested (and understood) the discussion.