Dune

[Buster's Uncle]

I think you're far too kind to the prequel/sequels.

[NewAgeOfPower]

I think you're far too kind to the prequel/sequels.

My instincts tell me to be a flaming dickwad. I like this forum, so I refrain from doing so

[Buster's Uncle]

Don't take it that far - I asked for no hateful talk about the authors in the OT, for example, because there is some heinous over-the-line stuff out there - but by all means discuss the work, and you need not be diplomatic, just not so much with the flaming gentialwad...

[Buster's Uncle]

M and I re-watched the Children of Dune miniseries last night, and I noticed something new:

The end of the Messiah half is the end of Godfather II, with Paul as Michael Corleone, right down to the hug/kiss of a sibling and a new baby (and I guess that makes Edric the Guild Navigator Moe Green).

-And as we already all noticed in the second half, dealing with the events of Children:

Pre-born abominations are full of charisma.


The costumes lacked so much as one-tenth the fabulousity found in the first mini, though.

[Sigma]

I have read summaries of the prequels as well as the two sequels on Wikipedia, and they just seem loathesome to me and totally missing the point of the earlier novels.

I'd argue that even Herbert's later novels miss the point of of the original Dune, but at least they are mostly consistent tonally and thematically. Still, Heretics and Chapterhouse feel like they are in a different genre from the original.

In other news I finished my reread of Dune via Audiobook, and it's even better than the first time I read it. I remember feeling originally that the final showdown with Feyd-Rautha kind of came out of nowhere, but in actuality it is foreshadowed throughout the entire book, and there's frankly no other way it could end. Paul does everything in his power to stop the jihad that he has forseen, and at the end he finally realizes that whether he lives or dies, it's going to happen, which allows himself to stand against Feyd without hesitation. It's fantastic.

[Buster's Uncle]

Anderson and B. Herbert alike, in their remarks about the end of Chapterhouse Dune, made me wonder if they'd even read the same book I did.  The protagonists utterly defeated?  No.  And from fundamental  misunderstanding of the source material, which is definitely the case, the flaws of the prequels/sequels naturally follow.

Orson Scott Card once commented in grading a story I submitted for a writing class he taught that a somewhat fourth-wall breaking joke I put into a story jolted the reader out of immersion.  "But it's a good fan move", he concluded.  (He gave the story an A and told me to try to sell it, BTW.)

And that's nuDune all over; the writing is actually good, but the plot/charcter ideas are just terrible.  Gaius Hellen Moniham was Jessica's mother from a rape by the Baron, whom she gave a wasting disease?  Fanfic ideas; BAD ones. 


Yeah Feyd was set up as the anti-Paul; none of his virtues -to the point of being an unworthy heir to the canny Baron- except being a deadly fighter.  A real punk.

[Sigma]

Honestly the biggest problem with the Dune novels is that all of them are a slow decline from the first novel, the ending of which is so final that the only way to continue on from it would be to jump so far ahead that none of the characters from the first book matter, or embroil yourself in a plot that demythologizes the mythic characters of the original book. That's the direction that Messiah and Children go. At the end of Dune, Paul concludes that the horrors of his jihad are worth it if it means revitalizing the human race, but the follow-up books don't really work off that concept, and instead focus on the efforts of other characters to derail his prescient vision, and ultimately of Leto II sort of subverting it. I like the idea that Paul saw the path ahead and took it despite knowing that it would be bloody and difficulty. I'm less fond of the notion that comes from God Emperor that the real path was too horrible even for Paul to traverse, and it was left for his son to take the final plunge.

[Geo]

The costumes lacked so much as one-tenth the fabulousity found in the first mini, though.

Bah. Costumes are merely fluff. 
At the very least I found the Fremen costumes much closer to what they should be.
I mean, black rubber outfits in a desert ??

[Sigma]

It goes to show much of an impact the visuals in the Lynch movie had on me that as I was listen to Dune I always pictured the stillsuits as being black. Always.

[Buster's Uncle]

They were explicitly mentioned as tan in the book.



I have often found the theme from the movie playing in my head as I've reread the books in the decades since (almost 30 years now!)

Bam BAAM bamBAAAM

[Geo]

OTOH, I probably like the most recent Dune Miniseries better because it doesn't look as dated. 
I did like it when I viewed it as a youngster.

[Buster's Uncle]

The Filming of Alejandro Jodorowsky's DUNE

[Valka]

deleted

[Mylochka]

Dr. Sparky Sweets lays down some mad analysis of the novel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxq2ztkE0eE

[Impaler]

I love Dune, both the books (but they do get weaker as the series goes on) and the Lynch movie (except the rain).

But I did NOT love one of the prequel books by Brian Herbert, it was called House Harkonnen and after something like 300 pages their were no less then NINE completely independent plot threads on at least 5 different planets that were being rapidly bounced between.  It felt like I was reading nine separate books because not a single thread interacted with another and the mental gymnastics of it all was far more taxing then the story pay off so I just put the book down half way through.