SMAX - The Will to Power - mod

[bvanevery]

I think that's enough preamble.

Did you come up with the suggestion?

You have to read what I wrote, think about it, and state what your priorities are.  There was one operative suggestion in there, which might not be an appropriate choice for you, depending on your goals.

[bvanevery]

Beginning test of version 177.
alternative_combat_mechanics_loss_divider=1.0

I am convinced that WTP has somewhat too much fungus for Average setting.  This has been shown in my last 3 games.  Fungal mazes, and a limited clear starting area cut off by a big fungal wall from the rest of a continent, pretty commonly occur.  I do not see any Thinker.ini parameter that controls this.  Looking in alphax.txt:

Code: [Select]

#WORLDBUILDER
1,   ; Fungus           (Fungus coefficient based on LIFE selection)
is the same as in the stock game.  Is there some hardwired setting in the WTP binary now?

Otherwise I hypthothesize that this phenomenon is an artifact of the faction placement algorithm.  It just plops me down somewhere bad, in the name of keeping factions equidistant from each other.  Thus I will try

faction_placement=0

on the idea that the current attempt to balance faction starting locations, may actually do more harm than good, due to lack of attention to the quality of the starting position.  We shall see.  If I've still got fungus in my face, then that's not the answer.

I got the Gaians, somewhat skewing the concern.  Initial landing spot does look lush though, with Rainy Rolling river squares nearby.  The random opponents are an all human cast, including the Cult of Planet and the Pirates.  That means continental pressure will not be as high, unless of course I get 8-balled behind some faction.  That does happen sometimes with the stock placement algorithm, even on a Huge map.  We shall see.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Interesting.
I could not find a bug in a code that sends sea units into land bases. Code seems correct. Anyone encountering that send me a save, please.

[bvanevery]

Interesting.
I could not find a bug in a code that sends sea units into land bases. Code seems correct. Anyone encountering that send me a save, please.

I don't recall any recent discussion of this, and was wondering if you replied to the wrong thread.  However maybe you've now investigated a known problem in the stock binary, and are asking others to be on the lookout for it in WTP.  In which case, will do.

[bvanevery]

Beginning test of version 177.
alternative_combat_mechanics_loss_divider=1.0
faction_placement=0

Details green pastures

green pastures

The land given to me was beautiful.  Note also the absence of any nearby fungal towers.  The sequence to the east, I believe some of them were the results of fungal pops.  Did not have any notable mindworm problems.  I'm quite surprised that these Gaians have -2 MORALE, making a Command Center seemingly worthless for training troops, although I'm doing so anyways.  It did not affect mindworm fighting in practice, as I mostly just used my mindworms on whatever I stirred up.  Supply pod popping was pretty easy, in part because I don't think I had real competition on my large land mass.

MY 2164.  This is the point at which I finally met everybody.  Also I've got Recycling Tanks capability, so all cities are building that.  The hope is that some of them will gain Completions as I continue to pop supply pods.  I will be needing a lot of Formers to work the land I've already settled.  I could also expand more as I haven't exhausted the good land.  I don't know how the political developments will work out in that regard.  Yang could go to war with me, but he's not close by land or water.  I've got 3 allies up north, but they might start fighting each other.

This doesn't prove that the stock faction placement algorithm gives good land, but it certainly did this time.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Interesting.
I could not find a bug in a code that sends sea units into land bases. Code seems correct. Anyone encountering that send me a save, please.

I don't recall any recent discussion of this, and was wondering if you replied to the wrong thread.  However maybe you've now investigated a known problem in the stock binary, and are asking others to be on the lookout for it in WTP.  In which case, will do.

Somebody did at some point and it was hanging in my TODO list.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Found another quirk. Command Center increases probe team starting morale. I think it is too much with them already starting at Disciplined and with high impact of probe morale on their success rate. Probably will remove it.

[bvanevery]

Found another quirk. Command Center increases probe team starting morale. I think it is too much with them already starting at Disciplined and with high impact of probe morale on their success rate. Probably will remove it.

+1.  I removed all base probe team morale improving techs because of this sort of thing.

[bvanevery]

Details defenseless Morganites

defenseless Morganites

MY 2266.  Cha Dawn has been overrunning Morgan for quite some time.  Morgan never fought back, and never used a probe team to liberate a base.  There was never anything wrong with Morgan's empire size, technology, or money supply.  What gives?  Cha Dawn is Fundamentalist Green Power, which gives +2 PROBE.  That doubles the cost of Morganic probe team actions, but Morgan had the money to do something sometime.  The Cultist capitol is also not particularly close to the conquered cities.

I am wondering if this is an instance of colonization obsession destroying an empire's military viability.  Not much else on the map has changed hands.

My own empire is fine, and no larger than it was.  It's bigpox.  Cities don't have the population of AI cities though.  I'm Democratic Green so my GROWTH is 0.  I have lush land, Children's Creches everywhere, and I'm now completing Tree Farms.  Some cities have finished building stuff and are spewing mindworms for lack of anything better to do.  They're starting to converge on a nearby Hive base that was taken from the Pirates.  Yang has attempted to advance overland towards me, but they're terribly slow with plenty of fungus in the way.

I have not seen any Needlejets this game, which makes me wonder if they're very very late in the tech tree.

This is a very slow game.  It would go a lot faster if I was at war with the Pirates, but they're actually my 1 ally.  Miriam recently signed a Truce after long hostility, and everyone else is in Vendetta against me.  Nobody is in direct land contact with me yet.  I see that Monopole Magnets is a late game tech, so it will probably continue to be slow.

I'm starting to steal from whoever I can.  I didn't bother until my cities finished their stuff, and now it's only worth using Cruiser Probe Teams, as I have few nearby land targets.  I also got the Empath Guild done somehow, so I don't need infiltration.  I've got various other SPs, which surprises me.  Maybe bigpox is worth something after all.

I had enough Formers that they ran out of things to do.  So first they built roads on Rocky squares, and then when those were all done, they finally built Mines.  I got some fungal pops around my Merchant Exchange city, and a 4 mindworm burst.  I dealt with it, and got a Tree Farm and a Centauri Preserve going there.  No more pops.  I'm starting to cash in my Formers to save on Support, as I don't need to develop anything more and suspect that Advanced Ecological Engineering will be along soon.  Hmm, except there are all these military prereqs for that.  Maybe I shouldn't liquidate all the Formers then.  I've got the Xenoempathy Dome so it isn't hard to move around now.

It's 2 AM, 1 AM if you count the end of Daylight Savings Time.  Sleep is preferable to continuing this slow game for now.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

He he. Found it and fixed it.
https://github.com/tnevolin/thinker-doer/blob/master/wtp_changelog.md#version-179

[bvanevery]

I have installed version 179 and made my 2 changes, faction_placement=0 and alternative_combat_mechanics_loss_divider=1.0.  I think it is too late for the Morganites to be saved, unless foil probe teams know to take coastal bases, and then the Morganites get aggressive about probing inland.  I've noticed that the stock AI is not competent at using foil probe teams on coastal bases.  An incompetence I'm often thankful for, because it's absolutely ruthless about sea bases in the water.  It's so bad that I simply don't make them until later in the game, when I'm capable of putting  a probe defense up, or the HSA.

[bvanevery]

Details don't do as I say

don't do as I say

MY 2273.  After a lot of oceanic theft I finally learn Power.  I wonder whether my buddy Svensgaard will approve of it.  In my mod he pursues Wealth, but in WTP and the stock game his agenda is Power.  This is listed in his faction profile.  Well what is he actually pursuing?  Wealth.  If I soon learn Wealth or Knowledge as well, it's going to be really annoying if he's criticizing me about that, while doing Wealth himself.  "Fat and weak, gonna carve you up."  Uh huh.  Dialog will go stupid.

These gaffes aren't quite as jarring with the Alien Crossfire factions, because most of them did not have strong enough characterization to be convincing in their ideologies.  But with the original 7 game characters, it's pretty much dealbreaker territory.  For instance:

Details Chairman of God

Chairman of God

This is completely stupid.  If Yang isn't pushing Police State, then who would?

Details CEO McJerkface

CEO McJerkface

This is also completely stupid.  He's Green??  I'm Green, I'm Deidre.  He went to war with me over this.  He used to be my ally.  It isn't just narratively jarring, it breaks the diplomatic system.

This was a very bad game design choice on Induktio's part, done in the name of AI performance only.  I strongly urge you to get rid of this in WTP.  I believe we've had this conversation already, some time ago.  But now I jog your memory with actual screenshots of how ludicrous this is.

For whatever reason, the Cultists, Data Angels, and Believers actually chose their correct agendas.  At least right now.  Believers aren't hard to figure out, as just about everyone wants the benefits of Fundamentalist.  I'm surprised that the Data Angels are Democratic, as it's not a popular choice among factions.  The Morganites are the only other ones that did it.  Maybe they wanted EFFICIENCY, but they also got their butts kicked.  Nobody wants to do Police State.

Not surprising what the Cult chose, as Green isn't a controversial choice.  In fact, almost everyone has gone Green, me included!  The only exception is Svensgaard, who has chosen Simple economics.  Free Market and Planned are hated, with good reason.  The AI knows they're bad choices, and so do I.

[bvanevery]

Details reckoning of worms

reckoning of worms

MY 2275.  This is the only land city within combat range of my empire.  Without rails it's been a fair amount of unit pushing to get these mindworms and spore launchers into position.  The time to attack is now because they're going to produce an artillery piece next year.  I managed to bring up 5 Spore Launchers for the final push and have done a bit of damage with the shelling.  1 boil, 7 pre-boils, and 1 larva are ready to go in.   Whatever the outcome of this battle, it will be illustrative of how the WTP combat system actually works.  Note that Yang is Fundamentalist Green Knowledge, so his MORALE doesn't suck and he's got a +2 PLANET defensive advantage.  I have +2 PLANET offensive advantage so that cancels out.

I did way better than the odds calculator would have me believe.  I lost 2 worms during the initial onslaught.  Then I got warnings about 23% odds of victory, but I won both of those battles.  The 1st one made me 60% wounded, the 2nd only 20%, which is not what I'd expect if the odds are against me.  Something is wrong with the calculator for psi combat.

Well the city's mine now.    Nothing really to do except keep chucking out mindworms from my cities.  Nothing better to build yet.  Guess I'll see how much of Yang I eat up that way.

[MercantileInterest]

Multiplayer lacks the ability to give away bases to other human players. I have to think about what the implications of this might be. Helping your ally retake his bases would be easier, for one.

[Nevill]

From a purely gaming perspective I prefer the AI to be flexible when it comes to SE settings over the strict adherence to the narrative. I'd like Morgan to be able to run Green from time to time, and Yang to run Fundy for INDUSTRY. I do it myself, after all.

It would be nice to see them weighed a bit more, or else the factions being incentivized to run their preferences in some fashion. Yang being immune to negative PS effects was, perhaps, the most obvious example, but it could be more subtle. Lal running Democracy out of the box would be crippling, but if his faction had a Robust, SUPPORT, he could likely survive it as "Morgan with benefits", and the extra pop would give him some minerals to work with.

We want an AI that could at least pretend to be moderately sensible. If we give FM -5 POLICE, PLANET, INDUSTRY and GROWTH, we don't want Morgan shooting himself in the foot. Which means, we want them to at least look at the options they have available instead of plopping on whatever is written in their faction files.