Turning SMAX back into strategy game

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Now this mod, I realize, has made a major change in research foci compared to what I'm used to.  "Economic" techs are placed under Discover, not Build.  I don't know how that will play out.  I happen to be a Discover faction, odd as that was in the original game.  In my mod the Spartans are a pure Conquer faction.  I will keep this game's default choices, in order to see how that pans out for an AI.

That's right. I made this choice with my open eyes. See explanation in readme. Specifically because economy and labs are convertible to some extent. Essentially building Energy Bank everywhere and then moving slider to labs a little bit is the same as building Network Nodes. Besides, pure energy increase benefit both economy and labs.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Holy crap!  Mindworm be like, you die now.  Well I've playtested 1:1 Psi odds before and my conclusion was, just don't attack.  Being Disciplined ala Spartan clearly isn't enough to attack with.  +2 MORALE is stronger on defense than offense anyways.

As I said I have no strong preference about it. Still 3:2 is to much for me but anything in between should do.

[bvanevery]

outrunning measly +2 minerals in long run.

But my SUPPORT is now +3 under Police State.  If I can make bigger bases, I can have as many units as the size of the base.  Granted, as of 2192 my biggest base is size 3 and I haven't populated my island yet.  Secret Projects are sucking up all my efforts.

[bvanevery]

Besides, pure energy increase benefit both economy and labs.

But AI Morgan is still a pure Build faction.  How is he supposed to make any money?

[bvanevery]

As I said I have no strong preference about it. Still 3:2 is to much for me but anything in between should do.

Well the net effect is I didn't even need Trance to trivially defend myself, at least as the Spartans with +2 MORALE, sitting in a base.

[bvanevery]

MY 2194.  Got the new Green.  +1 EFFIC, +2 PLANET, -1 GROWTH, -2 INDUSTRY.  The latter is a pretty steep penalty.  I know mindworms with high PLANET are pretty good but that seems like a lot of penalty to swallow.  I will wait and see.  This is not likely to be a mindworm slinging game for me, not my faction's core strength.

USB interference theory is out.  Now suspecting that switching from a Secret Project video derails the CTRL-ALT-TAB task switching.  Turning off Secret Project videos.

MY 2195.  Got the new Free Market.  It's anti-war, -2 MORALE.  POLICE penalty isn't as bad, only -2.  PLANET is still -3.  Won't be changing to this obviously.

Not used to dealing with a Democratic Roze, since I made Thought Control her obsession in my mod.  She comes from nowhere and sinks my Transport with an Artifact on it.  Sadly, she's my immediate southern neighbor.  I hope she doesn't give me awful Probe Team difficulties.  I'm not really in the mood to have my cities taken over, especially since the ones facing nearest her, have my Secret Projects in them.

Details my projects

my projects

MY 2200.  I've built more Secret Projects, but the Weather Paradigm has slipped past me.  I thought the Human Genome Project is more important to have.  I'm still working on the rather expensive Command Nexus.  Police State is getting old, as I just can't seem to make enough Scouts to police anybody.  I've gotten a Bureaucracy warning.  I've started to build Recreation Commons everywhere and will likely ditch Police State after I'm done with the Command Nexus.

MY 2202.  Got the new Planned.  This mod is pretty tight on EFFIC.  Most you can get from Politics is +1 for Democratic.  Most you can get from Economics is +1 for Green.  Police State and Planned each have -1.  Planned offers bonuses of +2 INDUSTRY, +1 GROWTH, +1 SUPPORT.  I don't think I can afford a hit to EFFIC though.

MY 2204.  Roze lands 2 Unity Rovers on my shore.  These are more annoying than usual because everything comes with 2 Armor.  I can't simply kill them.  I've never bothered to make an offensive unit because I've been too busy, haven't completed the Command Nexus, and haven't had anyone making any serious war effort against me.  The danger is she could pillage my big mines.  Fortunately my building of the Human Genome Project gives me sufficient happiness to move some defensive units around without anyone going into revolt.  I move a Scout into position from another city to establish Zones of Control and prevent these units from going anywhere.  If they pillage the square they're on, fine.  Maybe they will pack up and leave.  Better yet, maybe they'll suicide against me.

In trying to build an offensive unit, I've realized a quirk of this Armor 2 regime.  There's no such thing as a cheap offensive "glass cannon" unit, such as a traditional Speeder.  I have to pay through the nose for armor that isn't even going to do me any good in real Speeder combat.

MY 2206.  Roze is really getting irritating.  She finally brought up a ship to shell my shores.  I feel like I don't have any productivity at all.  I just got a Chaos gun, but darned if I could afford to build it.  Got the new Cybernetic to go along with it.  +2 RESEARCH, +1 EFFIC, -1 ECONOMY, -2 POLICE.  I don't think I need more research, I think I need more production of what I've already got.

I don't quite understand the new cost model.  With +0 INDUSTRY a Chaos Skimship with strength 4 Synthmetal Armor costs me 70.  A Chaos Rover with strength 2 armor costs me 100.  With strength 4 armor, 110.  This would seem to say, never build land units until you have to.  Especially since the Readme said that ships get a 50% bonus for defending in port now.  Stocking all your bases with ships would seem to be the one true strategy.  It only wouldn't work inland.

MY 2208.  Got Intellectual Integrity and the new Power.  +1 MORALE, +1 POLICE, +1 SUPPORT, -2 INDUSTRY.  Really not digging my production problem.  I complete the Command Nexus with cash.

MY 2209.  Got Industrial Automation and the new Wealth, but I can't use it, so don't know what it does.

MY 2211.  Roze lands 4-4-1 units in some fungus, then blasts my pinning Scout, then occupies one of my big mines.  I still don't have any unit to deal with this.  My production is piss poor and taking way too long.

MY 2212.  I finally get a Chaos Skimship together.  The artillery barrage from this is enough to do some damage to those enemy armor 4 units.  I'm only coming up with an Impact Speeder so I will need the weakening.  It was built solely to take out the Unity Rovers.  No point building mindworms because they've been offensively nerfed.  Seems like an 8-4-1 is my only good land unit.  I think I'm happy enough now, so I drop Police State in favor of Fundamentalist.

MY 2215.  They wiped out my big mines, I couldn't do anything about it.  I did kill their Unity Rovers though.  I've badly wounded their 4-4-1s with chaos artillery fire, but I have to wait for my stupid Impact Rover to heal up again.  I'm now Fundamentalist Power Cybernetic.

MY 2219.  I finally slay the last interloper.  I'm now Fundamentalist Planned Power Cybernetic.  I'm making a lot of Chaos Skimships.

[bvanevery]

MY 2226.  I take over the 1st of Roze's sea bases.  I realize that this mod doesn't have Foil Probe Teams, so I don't have to worry about my sea bases being subverted like in my own mod.  I also take my 2nd sea base.  +4 MORALE and Chaos guns pretty much blow opposition to smithereens.  I figure I will not build the newly available Cruiser version of these weapons, as it'll only add production expense and I'm close enough to the enemy to just use Foils.

My 2227.  Got the new Eudaimonic.  +2 ECONOMY, -1 EFFIC, -1 MORALE, -1 GROWTH.  I of course will not use it.  I am wondering if this mod intends to make it difficult to pop boom.

[bvanevery]

2 AM.  Ugh!  Fatigue has set in.  No more testing.  This is sufficient for feedback for now.

I don't have a problem with the expensive forests.  I do think it's a little over the top, and that doubling rather than tripling the cost of a forest might be more appropriate.  But I didn't have any real difficulty planting forests, as only 1 is needed per city at the beginning.  Forests will spread, especially if one pops a pod and gets forests from it.  I had a pile of forests on the easternmost part of my island.

The sheer expense of these units takes some getting used to.  That's a big part of why I quit.  I'm definitely disadvantaged in this 1st game, not knowing how the system would work or turn out.  I wouldn't have as much trouble a 2nd time around.

I think land units are too expensive compared to sea units.

I don't have a feeling for what's easy or difficult to discover, due to the research weights.  The idea of making some things easy to learn, and other things hard to learn, is not really something that occurred to me.  I just categorized things and then usually just called it "4" for the primary tech category.  Really really important stuff, I made "5".  I know that "0" completely blocks stuff from being discovered and I have designed around that.  The only thing in my own tree that I made deliberately difficult to discover, is the Planetary Datalinks.  I wanted it to be easy for someone researching Discover, and difficult but not impossible for everyone else.  I seem to have succeeded in that dynamic.

I am concerned that some of the AI faction research foci may not have been adjusted to go along with the new sorting regime.  How does Morgan make money if he doesn't Discover?

I do not like that mag tubes are not basically discoverable.  The Believers came down to pester the north end of my island.  Ordinarily I'd have rails to move troops to defend my interior.  Instead they get to do damage to me because my cities are isolated, and I simply don't have the production to garrison everything.  The only thing that prevented them from taking over my cities was my Elite double speed infantry movement.

Of course I am strongly mag tube biased.  In my mod it's a Tier 2 tech.  Historically I justify it by saying this is not the 19th century, we are not learning how to make steam engines for the 1st time ala Civ II.  Game mechanically, my early mag tubes might be a bit much for some people's tastes, but I don't think I should have to be waiting around forever for them either.

I think some of the SE table choices are not balanced, but I suspend judgment on them for now.  Like, -4 PROBE for Knowledge, really?  If someone wants to Transcend they have to give all their tech and cities away?  I'm doubting this is a good idea, but I didn't try it in my game.

Some of these Secret Projects are helluh expensive, to the point of being basically unbuildable.  Frustration over the Planetary Energy Grid is part of why I quit.  I don't think it should be easy to get, but I do think someone should be able to get it.  AIs twiddled forever on it, taking cities out of any other kind of production.  Same with me, until I got tired of that show and quit.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

outrunning measly +2 minerals in long run.

But my SUPPORT is now +3 under Police State.  If I can make bigger bases, I can have as many units as the size of the base.  Granted, as of 2192 my biggest base is size 3 and I haven't populated my island yet.  Secret Projects are sucking up all my efforts.

Yep. I have thought about it meanwhile. Now I think it is at least same or more valuable than Human Genome. Do you say pricing it 50-60 would be fair?

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Besides, pure energy increase benefit both economy and labs.

But AI Morgan is still a pure Build faction.  How is he supposed to make any money?

Well, formally he is not "build" he is "earn money" faction. That is a confusion in original game. But that's fine.

One option is to adjust faction research priorities.
Another option is to return technology definitions back to original. I.e. prioritizing Industrial Economics as Build.

I don't mind either. Actually I think it would be better to synchronize with original division. This is more understandable for players and doesn't break my mod much. I'll do it.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

As I said I have no strong preference about it. Still 3:2 is to much for me but anything in between should do.

Well the net effect is I didn't even need Trance to trivially defend myself, at least as the Spartans with +2 MORALE, sitting in a base.

I agree. I was thinking to make it more attack oriented.
a) 9:8. It gives attacking side +1/8 boost - equivalent of 1 morale level upgrade. This is still pretty measly, though. I understand it myself.
b) 5:4. It gives attacking side +25% boost negating intrinsic city defense or sensor in field. I guess I'll stay with this one.

Besides, the attack/defense ratio for natives is mostly not to balance native attacks but to balance native warfare one faction against other.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

MY 2194.  Got the new Green.  +1 EFFIC, +2 PLANET, -1 GROWTH, -2 INDUSTRY.  The latter is a pretty steep penalty.  I know mindworms with high PLANET are pretty good but that seems like a lot of penalty to swallow.  I will wait and see.  This is not likely to be a mindworm slinging game for me, not my faction's core strength.

Let me reiterate once more. SE are so gray area that I do not even defend my position on it but just collect what people would propose and set it accordingly.

My take on SE balance is that it cannot be balanced at all across the whole course of the game. All effects are more or less declining with empire development in relation to overall economy. The only one that growth is EFFICIENCY that skyrockets due to it's ability to decrease corruption which becomes a huge issue toward the end of the game. So anything SE with + EFFICIENCY will be very appealing later on. You cannot do anything about it.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

I don't quite understand the new cost model.  With +0 INDUSTRY a Chaos Skimship with strength 4 Synthmetal Armor costs me 70.  A Chaos Rover with strength 2 armor costs me 100.  With strength 4 armor, 110.  This would seem to say, never build land units until you have to.  Especially since the Readme said that ships get a 50% bonus for defending in port now.  Stocking all your bases with ships would seem to be the one true strategy.  It only wouldn't work inland.

The cost model is not mine - it is hardcoded. I have only changed costs of some equipment.
Due to this model the mixed units (weapon and armor) cost grows quadratically. That applies to ALL defenders, mixed attackers-defenders and ships, of course. You'll see later ships with catch up with high end attacker in price. Early ships are quite cheap, though. Which is not that bad, I think.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

I realize that this mod doesn't have Foil Probe Teams, so I don't have to worry about my sea bases being subverted like in my own mod.
My 2227.  Got the new Eudaimonic.  +2 ECONOMY, -1 EFFIC, -1 MORALE, -1 GROWTH.  I of course will not use it.  I am wondering if this mod intends to make it difficult to pop boom.

My text mod doesn't but I am playing on top of Thinker and it does.

Yes, you can reach pop boom only with golden age.

[bvanevery]

Now I think it is at least same or more valuable than Human Genome. Do you say pricing it 50-60 would be fair?

In my mod the Living Refinery costs 50, but it's a late game tech.  You have to be in space to get it, and that comes late game in my mod.  I think you have a point that it's not so useful to make people wait as long as I have, because by then, mineral production is generally much higher anyways.  But I also think you're giving this away way too early.