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Quote from: YitziDefinitely, but (as Journey to Centauri indicates), he does seem to want an "elite" alongside him, who would presumably have freedoms in proportion to their enlightenment. The police state is for control of the masses.Geniocratic, then? A divided focus on what it takes to "build" the ideal ruler and the various compliance techniques required to suppress the huddled masses?
Definitely, but (as Journey to Centauri indicates), he does seem to want an "elite" alongside him, who would presumably have freedoms in proportion to their enlightenment. The police state is for control of the masses.
I've never really known what to make of his faction. He talks about the importance of transparency, and yet the whole bureaucratic element can be construed (in some renditions) to partially cut against that. It depends on one's point of view, I suppose, whether or not grand mal concessions to cultural taboos (say, against vaccination) are a "liberal" value.
I figured she'd interpret the Unity mission as the device designed to ferry her people to Salvation. Hence why every colonist is technically a member of the Elect.
That's certainly a possibility. I figured that the Novo Estado would be the most-religious, after the Believers, but I agree with your general sense of religiosity overall.
I've always felt that human alienation from "true" thinking machines was one of the more plausible aspects of the Dune story, if rejection of all computers entirely seemed stupid.
Less inclined toward instilling discipline and values according to one particular methodology (i.e., military drill). Taking care, like the Gaians, to manage their settlements in symptico with Chiron's "moods," although inclined to fight back when the opportunity presents itself (e.g., by clear-cutting xenofungus).
The idea is that he took a few hundred family groups and some number of single contractors and put together what he felt was the ideal colony in terms of knowledge, skills, and abilities.I might need to look more closely at the history of early settlements in the U.S. and craft him more closely into a Cotton Mather type.
Precisely. That, and dream-walking.
A faction committed to a revival of Greek concepts of civic virtue, arete, worship of a pantheon of gods according to the dictates of one's conscience, and cultural heterogeneity?
The Children of the Atom would not have a very coherent ideology, no. Still, they'd have a unique identity. Is that worth keeping them in the rotation?
I'm game. Is there somewhere I can go for their blurbs and diplomacy lines?
Similar to geniocratic, but he seems more concerned with discipline and hard work and self-denial than with simple creative intelligence.
I think he certainly does have some internal contradictions...that may be a direct result of his general "try to please everybody/try to get everybody to work together" approach.
Except her tendency toward preaching doesn't seem to really fit that...
I think it is definitely a plausible approach that society might take, but it is emphatically not the approach taken in SMAC.
So a sort of Harmony-focused ? Could be interesting...
Such a small group would necessarily be a minor faction...but yes, that sort of "planned society" probably would fit well with the flavor of SMAC.
But dream-walking is the method, not the ideology.
I'd say ditch the religious and cultural heterogeneity aspects, and just have the focus on arete.
Each faction file has all that material. The context of most of the diplomacy lines can be found (with the Gaians as a sample) in alphax.txt.
I presume that his emphasis on these traits applies to all his subjects but that he would expect his Talents to apply themselves to the close study of a certain set of arts and disciplines, mastery of which would be considered the prerequisite for receiving prefectural authority.
I think, if Lal is the simple democrat, I might add Archimedes' Exiles, a faction led by an engineer and former designer of prisons. The Exiles believe that all aspects of society should be planned by qualified professionals.
Why not? It would still be obvious that some of the putative Elect have wayward tendencies.
Sure, but this is one area in which I think deviation is warranted.
There’s no ideology per se.
I think the religious and cultural precepts would be useful here. It leads to a highly tolerant society with a great many cross-cutting influences.
The Hunters of Chiron#HUNTERThe Hunters of Chiron, The Hunters, Hunters, H, 1, Marsh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, Politics, Democratic, MORALE Politics, Police State, nil
Hunter, Patrol, J.T., Marsh, High Hide Warden, keen, bloodthirsty, vigilant, savage, Useless Squatter adopt the attitude of the knife to strive, to seek, to find, and to yield
engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy piss down my back and tell me it rains sharpening his knife and licking his chops sharpening your knife and licking your chops provoking Planet against us all blatant piracy, M1 wildlands management, M1 piratical behaviors, M2 subscription, M1 daring to excel the Main Force Patrol the Law of the Jungle“Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines."-- J.T. Marsh, “The Hunters of Chiron”#DATALINKS1^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (“J.T.”) Courtenay Marsh}^BACKGROUND: Kenya, CIP Game Warden^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with Chiron}^#DATALINKS2^+1 PLANET: {Conditioned to study the natural environment}#FACTIONTRUCE“If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”“Sense in those words, I admit.”“In for a penny…”#FACTIONTREATY“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”“All right. Let’s do that.”“I hear that it is customary to hang a poacher. Call me a traditionalist.”#BREAKTREATY“Say, #NAME1? No slander to say there’s many a clever trick done by an overlander.”
#DREAMERThe Dreamers of Chiron, The Dreamers, Sonambulist, H, 1, Cobb and Cohen, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, Values, Knowledge, PROBE ?, ?, nil Hunter, Hunter, Roshann and Aleigha, Cobb and Cohen, The Fountainhead Tai-Pan, Director, imponderable, genius, vacant, visionary, effortless, skillful, bloodless, boot-licking, Addict, Lackey to plot the turbulent tributaries of the fully awakened mind to plumb fully the mysteries we are only now beginning to perceive measuring your scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into your clutches measuring their scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into their clutches obliterate our identities by coming and going and taking and leaving as you please even now, devising all manner of reprehensible tests, and us the unsuspecting subjects planning a little visit to extract what is not your own proliferating a knowledge that must be suppressed idea theft, M1 identifying the first of us born with new sensitivities to our fellow men, M1 endless nightmare, M2 toll, M1 falling toward apotheosis the Asset Control Division the Rules of Extraction"Name the most resilient parasite. A bacterium? A virus? An intestinal worm? No. The most resilient parasite is an idea. Explosive. Highly contagious. Once formed in the brain, an idea is impossible to erradicate. My scientists tell me that even what is allegedly forgetten is still in there... somewhere. I haven't got a map. That, I admit freely. But I do have a lovely box of dynamite."-- Roshann Cobb, “The Art of Extraction”#DATALINKS1^LEADER: {Roshann Cobb and Aleigha Cohen}^BACKGROUND: Hong Kong, Proprietor; Myanmar, Chief of Neurosurgery^AGENDA: {Understand significant neurological mutations among the CIP crew}^#DATALINKS2?#FACTIONTRUCE“By day, you make war, but by night, you dream of peace.”“I guess that makes you my personal genie.”“‘Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon.’”#FACTIONTREATY“As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know that there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And finally, there are the unknown knowns; things we used to know but no longer remember. I can help with that.”“Total recall? Works for me.”“You have the look of an addict, and are no more convincing.”#BREAKTREATY“It was all a dream.”
Sounds right.
So somewhere in between and ...could be interesting.
But the absence of cross-cutting influences is a large part of what characterizes the original SMAC factions.
So he'd tend to run Democratic? Interesting...
Was there supposed to be a "not" in there?
Looks good, although they still are fairly similar to .
That said, I would change the bonuses they would get. I'd say give them significant fungus bonuses (but no PLANET bonus), a SUPPORT bonus, and RESEARCH and EFFICIENCY penalties.
Faction leader is Sardul Singh, a supervising engineer aboard the Unity. Singh is from Jodhpur, India, son of a provincial inspector of prisons. He studied engineering and civic planning at the Indian Institutes of Technology. A former member of the Indian Parliament, he is notable for designing several maximum security prisons and planned nuclear cities in India, Russia, and China.His psych profile is that of the planner. His file refers to a strong belief in the power of planned communities to complement social and criminal rehabilitation and promote physical and mental well-being, spurring productivity. He has a near-pathological commitment to order and economization, leaning heavily on operant conditioning as a tool of governance.As a faction, they would presumably be characterized by increased efficiency, strong policing, reduced morale, and a planned economy. Probably their advantage has to do with drones.Can you tell that I am indebted to Sigma for much of the text below? Cheers! Happy to remove it if he objects.The Archimedes Group#ARCHIMEDESThe Archimedes Group, Communitarians, Communitarians, H, 1, Singh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, Economics, Planned, EFFICIENCY
I mean to say, I think they'd be one of the more tolerant factions.
No. He's supposed to be successful.
One of the significant problems I'd like you to help me consider is that virtually every scientist of note -- Zakharov, Cohen, and Pahlavi -- is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber.
That sounds about right. Why a SUPPORT bonus?
Let's try The New Two Thousand...#TWOTHOUSANDThe New Two Thousand, The Empresario, Two Thousand, M, 2, Van de Graaf, M, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0TECH, CommandEconomics, Free Market, SUPPORTPolitics, Democracy, nilOscar, van de Graaf, Nova TerraCaptain-General, daring, egotistical, visionary, double-dealing,Rampant Egotistdemonstrate the viability of the planned colony on Chironto build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private propertyseizing what is rightfully yours and calling it his ownseizing what is rightfully mine and calling it your ownempowering his tin-star marshals to impound whatever goods -- or people -- they happen to run acrosscarping on about the litany wrongs done to himcarping on about the litany of wrongs done to youcommitting the latter-day equivalent of cattle-rustlingabsconding with things not your ownabsconding with things not your own, M2taming bravely this strange new world, M1colonial expansion, M2stake, M1securing a claim in the greatest enterprise of the present agethe Colonial MarshalsThe Settlement Charter#BLURB^"The cornerstone of the American dream is each man's inalienable right to the enjoyment of his own property. This notion is enshrined in the law. It was sanctified by the blood of our ancestors. A man's land, it is his patrimony. A man's possessions, they are a part of his legacy. In right society, my property cannot be taxed but I am given a say in how those proceeds are spent. My property cannot be seized but I am given fair value in return.We had a written agreement, Quoyle and myself. My property -- my people -- were subject to his writ for two years, reverting to my sole possession, free and clear, at the conclusion of that period. The purpose of that agreement was to secure the future of a unified colony. Well now Quoyle and that colony are dead. The contract is broken, my property scattered. I mean to recover that property by any and all means available to me."-- Oscar van de Graaf, "Notes on Arrival"#DATALINKS1^LEADER: {Oscar van de Graaf}^AGENDA: {to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property}^TECH: {Doctrine: Command}#DATALINKS2^+1 SUPPORT: {Contingency planning for virtually any eventuality}^+X WEALTH: {Hand-picked settlers pooled collective wealth}^+25% defensive combat bonus: {Armed retainers}#FACTIONTRUCE"You know what's going to happen in the morning? The whole lot of my boys'll be out, occupy the high ground, move through that pretty valley there, and have at your town. You will fight valiantly, and be butchered valiantly! And afterwards, men will thump their chests and say what a brave cause it was, too! But you'll be dead and gone. Figured I'd give you a chance to reason. You sure you're shooting at the right people?""As you say, this whole series of events has been an unfortunate mistake.""I have some bad news for you: the cavalry aren't coming."#FACTIONTREATY"$TITLE0 $NAME1, I'd sooner have a good neighbor than a good fence.""You've got one. Where do I sign?""I know what happens to those who make their mark on the dotted line. You better just light a shuck for home."#BREAKTRUCE"Bad news, bucko: You're bought out."
So their favored setting decreases their favored value? That's extremely unusual...
That would probably result from a focus on arete anyway...no need to make it part of their core ideology.
The phrase is "and not to yield", meaning to be successful.
You're missing one very important exception: is a scientist.Every faction leader who thinks science will solve all problems is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber...and the reason for that should be obvious.
Living off the land, and minimal advanced/needs-to-be-replaced-often equipment.
Sounds like he's unethical in his pursuit of wealth, knows it, and really doesn't care, but keeps up the pretense of "for the good of the mission" in the same way that people like Capone would take on the trappings of culture...could be interesting, though a sincerely villainous faction is definitely not in the flavor of the original factions.
Would you believe that I've always interpreted the use of "yield" in that sentence to mean "produce," not "refuse surrender"?
Touché, although I think it possible to have a scientist who acknowledges the legitimacy of the popular will, even if he or she disagrees with it.
I just worry that the science-focused factions suffer from (A) seeming artificially linear in their focus on particular disciplines (e.g., materials science, genetics, fusion, neuropsych, xenobiology)
and (B) too much similarity in their mad rush to break all known ethical safeguards.
I've always thought that Zakharov would have been more interesting as a distinctly "New Soviet man" type, but building the alternate history to favor a longer-lasting USSR, or placing his birth as far back as the 1970s, was just too hard or too implausible, respectively.
I figured that stood for efficiency more than support, but I see that you're talking about support from a base.
The issue here is that I think Marsh's faction would be numerically very small.
Originally, I figured that there would be some good in him. He does have values other than wealth and the enjoyment of luxury, which I think sets him apart from Morgan. The issue is that van de Graaf was a patriot, and nationalism doesn't really have a place in Alpha Centauri. For the same reasons, I've been struggling with the idea of a faction of genocide survivors who were put aboard as a kind of collective apology, led by an Erik Lensherr/Magneto madman type determined to take vengeance on the other factions and to prevent re-contact with Earth.Van de Graaf is a meditation on the good and evil of the early rancher. Themes hinted at in the work of Louis L'Amour. What does it take to tame a wilderness? L'Amour, who otherwise always wrote about morally upright men, occasionally seemed to suggest that civilized society had been made possible only because hard men had jealously defended their initially precarious (and often legally dubious) positions years (sometimes decades) before. There was this idea that it was OK to ride into strange country and disposes other big men, and the justification was in the poetry of having the grit and wit to do so -- either implication or actual evidence of being the superior steward from a civilization standpoint. Might made right as often as right made might.Van de Graaf feels used by the mission leadership. He feels that they abused the terms of a contract that he signed so that the colony could benefit at his (van de Graaf's) personal expense.
As for evil, I think Yang is/was always palpably evil. So too Miriam. Lal was the only truly "good guy" that I remember encountering after Garland's death. The rest were implied to be quite insane. Morgan was perhaps neutral.
Which is an incorrect usage; to produce is to be yielded to (by the land or whatever), not to yield oneself.
Definitely, but such would simply be a -type who happens to be a scientist; someone who holds science above all else will not accept the legitimacy of the will of non-scientists.
doesn't really have any particular focus; he may speak somewhat more about physics and materials science, but I think he really respects all science equally.
It's not an alternate history. It's a future history that's become dated. At the time SMAC was produced, all the relevant events were still in the future. (For that matter, the Unity launch still isn't until next year.)
That would just mean they'd have less forces period; what they have would still be easier to support.
None of that is universal enough to be its SMAC-style ideology, though.
Not really; each faction leader (at least among the original 7, and of the SMAX factions at least the aliens) can be seen both positively and negatively:
So, with the proviso that JarlWolf is going to offer new food for thought on this subject of factions, have we reached a critical mass from which we can proceed?One open question that I still have is whether folks think that associating particular ideologies with distinctive (but not exclusive) national and religious identities would be useful. For example, stipulating that Yang especially well among East and Southeast Asian colonists, as well as the apparatchiks of Communist countries, while Deirdre tended to pick up the same people who vote green in Western Europe today?
The next step, after that, is to settle on whether the game would benefit from any alternate history (e.g., Russia stays Communist after 1991) or if we should restrict efforts to "future history" only. I then intend to start posting segments of my proposed future history for critique.
I think a weak association would work very well, but a solid "nationality X is always of faction Y" would not work at all.
We have to change astronomical fact (IIRC, we now know that Alpha Centauri A has no habitable planets), so alternate history isn't such a big deal.
Hunters of Chiron should be more focused on survival as a whole, while Santiago was more focused on military dominance. Hunters of Chiron should be fairly safeguarded, vigilant communities that are wary and distrustful of the local wildlife, and perhaps want to terraform fairly fast.
Bonuses would be increased terraforming speed, 1+ support due to communal supports and adaptive citizens, 20% defence bonus. Free perimeter defence.
Disadvantages would include, -2 Planet due to their destructive attitude to the local wildlife, -1 police due to rather independent communities and the need for people's security, as they will demand protection.
I imagine this faction as frontier survivors who are concerned with survival, building community. They would likely have aversion to green as its prohibitive of their expansion. They would would have no real preferences of what they like as they are willing to adopt any system, maybe power if you wish to choose.As for how aggressive they are, normal. They aren't overly aggressive, aggression is tool to be used wisely.
Human Ascendancy is more focused on genetics, it is very much like Sigmas Genearch faction. Faction seems fairly fine as it stands, it varies from the blind pursuit of knowledge and instead focuses on human physiological perfection. Should not grow heavy in population, should be very controlling of population growth and taking great care for developing human fetus and growth of population and traits found. Very rigorous observation, may even be police state. Maybe not as authoritarian in other matters, however and quite liberal. Brave new world inference. If anything, it is much like Yang's hive, except instead of social engineering experimentation, it is defining the best physiological development for humans.
Estado Novo should use terms carefully more. Fascism is not intentionally made in mind with caste system, as fascism is to promote a group identity and conformity to serve a leadership, exclusive to others outside their own group. Society is fine, but should go into detail why they cling to tradition so much and revert to feudalistic castes. What is reason they did this? What prompted this on Chiron?
Issues with the Dreamers of Chiron is you seem to have many authoritarian factions.