Random crap with Uno.

[Buster's Uncle]

Too good at sataning as a boy is SO you.

[Buster's Uncle]

-And OF COURSE you were a good teacher - if you're bad at anything you've ever put your hand to and tried hard, you don't talk about it.

hET?  What's he suck at?  There have to be some things...

[Unorthodox]

Let the record show I said I was POPULAR.  From many perspectives I was not a GOOD teacher, as I never taught what was in the manual, and was purposely undermining the brain washing whilst teaching my kids.  There were complaints and I often had overseeing eyes sit in to see what devilry I was going to bring up that week, but the kids WANTED to come to my class, were well behaved, and I was TECHNICALLY teaching from the scriptures if not in the prescribed methods.

I had a last supper lesson, for instance.  Well, I showed up a good 20 minutes early, reserved a larger room, and started setting up tables and unpacking my car.  Word got around Uno was up to something, so I was stopped and asked by some high priests (ugh...um, difficult to explain mormon heirarchy.  They've held important official roles but aren't necessarily still holding them.  Essentially theyve had a peak under the hood as much as allowed beyond just temple ordnances, and are sworn to secrecy.)  I explain, simply I was teaching the last supper, but you can't understand the last supper until you understand the passover as it WAS a passover meal (according to 3/4 gospels, John can F off). 

Well, they've never heard anything like that and this is highly irregular.  So, instead of my 14 kids (largest class, and I didn't even have backup at this point) I ended up with the entire high priests group including one member of the bishopric sitting in to observe.  So, I got more tables and chairs and made them participate to. 

See, the authors of the bible just assume the reader knows what a passover meal entails, and none of these experts had ever BEEN to one before.  In my opinion, this is critical context to understanding what Jesus changed during the last supper.  One of the attendees is/was a professor at BYU, specifically for religious studies and admitted he'd never even thought about that aspect before.  The High priests were rather impressed. 

Anyhow, kids went home with QUESTIONS, which was always my goal.  This upset some parents, and that lesson got complaints.  But I was not removed.   

[Unorthodox]

I quit when the official manuals changed and specifically stated you couldn't teach from the bible anymore.  I wouldn't teach from the other books. 

[Buster's Uncle]

For those playing along at home who don't know much about LDS, Uno's remark about "mormon heirarchy" is based in all men in good standing being considered priest.  Fathers, for sure, and other Mormon men get routinely called upon to bless the sick and injured, stuff like that.

-This means it can get complicated about SOMEbody still has to run things at temple, and in the congregation/local community, they still have pastors or something in charge, and definitely bishops responsible for whatever level that is.


I don't see the problem w/ teaching traditional Passover as context.  We're not talking about a flexible-minded culture, LDS, but I'm sure their problem/discomfort wasn't based in THAT, exactly, or I'd at least hope they aren't quite that rigid.

[Unorthodox]

The Mormon faith is a high demand one. 

For those playing by the book, you do the church thing Sunday. This is the 1 hour sacrament meeting core of the religion and 1 hour (2 when I was teaching) of schooling broken by age up til adults.  Adults are broken into the relief society for women, the elders quorum for the run of the mill men in charge of day to day operations like BU mentions, and the High Priests, who have held actual church power.  Bishops, temple workers, etc.

After church Sunday there are often other duties.

Monday is Family home evening. Where the parents are expected to both be home and have a structured fun along with a lesson.  Typically the same theme as was taught that week in church.  I believe the crux of the issue is my kids often had questions and perspectives the parents weren’t prepared to address here that would result in the knee jerk what the hell is he teaching reactions.  It was always the very by the book ones to complain. 

Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday are typically children activities for grade school ages, teen boys, teen girls and occasionally a mix of boys/girls.  There used to be Boy Scouts mixed in here but they no longer associate. 

Thus the church inserts itself to become your whole social structure as long as you’re popping out kids like you should. Which makes this kind of preachings from the church leadership so insidious. 

[Buster's Uncle]

Or you might say, the church is VERY organized, in theory and often in pragmatic practice, and there's inevitable groupthink as a result.  Not an ideal environment for a rugged individualist to swim in, nor for his kids.

SO - I've just kept my ears and eyes open about LDS, not just believed what my own native culture said about them -that Mormons is of teh Devil- and I still have to ask:  there's definitely sermons, right?  There's definitely a spiritual leader -you mentioned former High Priests- at the local temple level who does more than his share of them, right?  Is he the same as the one running the details of having the church run, or is that more of a Head Deacon sort of office?  Which wins when they disagree, IF that's separate jobs?

I'm not asking about the whole LDS hierarchy; just how the local temple runs...

[Unorthodox]

Or you might say, the church is VERY organized, in theory and often in pragmatic practice, and there's inevitable groupthink as a result.  Not an ideal environment for a rugged individualist to swim in, nor for his kids.

SO - I've just kept my ears and eyes open about LDS, not just believed what my own native culture said about them -that Mormons is of teh Devil- and I still have to ask:  there's definitely sermons, right?  There's definitely a spiritual leader -you mentioned former High Priests- at the local temple level who does more than his share of them, right?  Is he the same as the one running the details of having the church run, or is that more of a Head Deacon sort of office?  Which wins when they disagree, IF that's separate jobs?

I'm not asking about the whole LDS hierarchy; just how the local temple runs...

Hard to do without getting into the basics. 

The President and his 2 councelors preside over the quorum of the 12.  These are considered the prophets and have been blessed with the ability to receive god's word for the world as a whole. 

Below them is the quorum of the 70.  Who each have been blessed with a more regional ability.  They again have a president and 2 councelors. 

I get a little murky in the middle here, but the themes remain.  1 leader, 2 councelors.  There's 1 or 2 more levels before the local I just don't recall the names.

At the local level, you have the Stake presidency.  Again, president and 2 councelors, who oversee a group of Wards. 

At the Ward level, which is where you would meet every sunday, you have the Bishop, and his 2 councelors.  Given the blessing to guide everyone in the ward.  It should be noted NONE of these have formal training, and individual bishops have relatively great leeway in how they run minutia.  Bishoprics change every few years typically, which is why we have high priests running around that were former bishops. 

As for the typical sunday service:  Usually you'll have the typical hymns, an opening prayer given by a random member of the ward, a sacrement blessed and administered by teen boys as kind of training in their preisthood roles.  Typically following that you will get 2-3 talks and maybe a special musical number, usually all by random members of the ward.  If he feels the need, the bishop will make some comments here or there between talks.  So, no, it really is all hands on deck for the typical sunday service. 

Now, if you're talking the local TEMPLE, that's a little different to mormons, as those are extra special highly structured religious rights.  The infamous baptisims for the dead, endowment ceremonies, and wedding ceremonies.  Details are not to be talked about.  The people who run that are called from the local stakes specifically to do the temple jobs.  It's a special blessing to have that authority as well, but limited to the temple work. 

I will say, Satan has a role in the endowment ceremonies, and at the SLC temple specifically, it is a live in person role.  I always wanted THAT job. 

[Buster's Uncle]

Okay, I was talking about wards/stakes when I said temples, one time church.  Asked and answered about the spiritual pecking order, not answered about who's responsible for ordering the grape juice for communion and paying the electrical bill, and decisions on those lines.


Followup question:  I believe I'm sure I recall that you were excommunicated young, a teen.

How/when were you a -and I'll just say it in Baptist, not knowing the LDS terminology- Sunday School teacher?  You sound way more than 14 in your story.

[Unorthodox]

Let’s say I’d do anything for hEt.  For some time that included church.

Excommunication is infinitely easier for people to understand than what really happened as a child. 

There are some teachings of Brigham Young that are so problematic they are actively being erased.  But, with the broad leeway previously explained, and the right bishop in the 80s who believed those teachings prior to the active erasure, and I was declared a cursed child.  To be stricken from the eternal records unless I was removed from the earth, preferably violently.  My mom’s woes were all my cursed fault, and there was a simple way out.  Remove the curse under the direction of the bishop. 

Evidence of my cursed nature was a nicely sized birthmark on my back.  Over the left shoulder.  My left handedness.  And the facts my best friends dad had done a little murder suicide to his mom the day after a sleepover for us to find on the way home from school and I’d found my grandpa dead.   

This doesn’t tend to sit well with active members and usually leads to arguments, so it’s always just been easier to deal with the online folks I encounter by saying I was excommunicated.  Virtually the only times I get into that discussion is with active members online. 

[Unorthodox]

It probably brings context to the weird relationship with my parents to know they were being told I was cursed and they needed to kill me. 

While they obviously didn't follow through, it was probably something in the back of their heads any time things got difficult. 

This Bishop also wanted dad to quit his job as it made him work Sunday.  My parents didn't go back to church after that.  They officially believe in the church still, just that individuals in it can be [messed up - or loved very much] up.  Again, the no formal training and great leeway aspect. 

The funny thing is about 20 years ago I ran into bishop duckface in a professional capacity.  I HAD to ask him wtf, mind you.  He believes he was 100% correct, and my situation showed him 'the fullness of the law' (mormon phrasing you get used to).  He fully believes I was cursed and the only way to remove the curse was ritually shedding my blood.  Just he now understands murder wasn't the only way and the surgery that removed my birth mark, and blessing received going into surgery was enough.  He thinks the world just isn't ready to live that law and it will be  accepted and taught later. 

So yeah, basically I'm a witch.

[Unorthodox]

while not purposeful, it pleases me to great lengths that bypassed the censor.  I'll change it on request. 

[Buster's Uncle]

So requested, and I'm not feeling patient.

[Geo]

So yeah, basically I'm a witch.

Full Luna is a comin'!

Seriously though, that story sounds even worse then some hardcore cults would do.

[Unorthodox]

This is why I don't like to get into it.  It's officially not a teaching of the church at large, but a very disturbed person put in a place of power.  Unfortunately, this is not entirely uncommon, though this specific belief in birthmarks and curses is more unique.  There was a book written by someone high up in the 1970s that went into the whole birth marks are curses and bigfoot being Cain that was likely the source of this belief, but it's not ever been official doctrine.

It's not uncommon to hear about sexual or other abuse at the hands of a bishop.  Unfortunately the church appears more interested in protecting it's image that dealing with these things outright. 

I've got questions I never understood enough to ask about the birthmark now. 

I know it was weird as in an OMG what is that reaction to anyone's first time seeing it.  And I know it started to CHANGE, so they removed it.  I also know it was NOT cancer.  What I don't know is what it actually was.  It was growing FUR and lumps and shooting tendrils DOWN in.