Telepathic Matrix

[Hierophant]

I haven't really seen anything about this anywhere, but if you have the Telepathic Matrix, can you thereby turn your psych all the way down to 0% and no longer use psych-only specialists? What do drones and talents do in this situation, if anything? if they do nothing, then it all seems rather overpowered. Or am I missing something?
I'm not fully enamored with the idea that I should just have my entire population on the brink of rebellion, only prevented from rioting in the streets and breaking storefronts by an army of tarts in togas standing in fountains beaming happy thoughts into their heads. Paean to SMAC says that it's an optimistic view of the future, but I think it makes the Self-Aware Colony look pretty dang wonderful by comparison.

[bvanevery]

It is totally overpowered.  For this reason in my mod, you can't have it until you're on the Threshold of Transcendence anyways.  If you're about to win the game and just want to sandbox, eh, I'll let you!

[Nexii]

It is quite strong but by the time you get it Transcendi and PSYCH facilties do a lot of drone control on their own. I don't consider it too OP myself because it comes so late in the game you might get 20 turns out of it for your investment.

Also related to this, I designed a faction that doesn't have any drones in the theme of Civ2 Fundamentalism government. They never dominated games like I thought they would.

To me there's a few Secret Projects that are much more powerful. Either because of their benefits or where they were on the tech tree.

[Hierophant]

Still, no drones would make the building game a lot easier no?

[EmpathCrawler]

You'd still need psych if you wanted Golden Ages, I suppose, but it comes so late that you probably aren't hurting for energy and you already will have psych facilities.


I guess it would be nice if you decided to launch a massive conquest of Planet in the late game and didn't want to police the conquest and bureaucracy drones. Despite the lovey poetry by Deirdre, it's not all that useful for an already well-developed faction.

[bvanevery]

Lots of things aren't useful by the end of the game.  That doesn't change the fact that they're overpowered.  If you put them any earlier in the game to get a benefit from them, they would suck.  I put the Transcendii at the very end of the game too.  Lots and lots of things, I've moved appropriately later in the game, because it sucks having them earlier.  I've also seriously raised the cost of various things.  Blink Displacer, for instance, is 100% cost increase (cost=4) and is given at the same time as Telepathic Matrix, dead least in tech.  Because it is overpowered.  It doesn't matter if there are a few dozen weapons that are also overpowered, at least I have them in a cost progression until the bitter end of the game.  And my weapons cost progression is rather severe.

[Nexii]

I wouldn't even put Telepathic Matrix in the top 5 for SPs to start the game with. It might be in the top 10.

[bvanevery]

Well you can write that mod, and others can tell you whether it's any good.

[EmpathCrawler]

Lots of things aren't useful by the end of the game.  That doesn't change the fact that they're overpowered.  If you put them any earlier in the game to get a benefit from them, they would suck.  I put the Transcendii at the very end of the game too.  Lots and lots of things, I've moved appropriately later in the game, because it sucks having them earlier.  I've also seriously raised the cost of various things.  Blink Displacer, for instance, is 100% cost increase (cost=4) and is given at the same time as Telepathic Matrix, dead least in tech.  Because it is overpowered.  It doesn't matter if there are a few dozen weapons that are also overpowered, at least I have them in a cost progression until the bitter end of the game.  And my weapons cost progression is rather severe.

Why would I build it at the very end of the game instead of VoP/Ascent?

[bvanevery]

Because you're a sandboxer and don't intend to win the game.

Only other scenario I can think of, is you have a moral objection to winning the game by Transcendence, as I do!  I will never do it.  I think the death of the individual is a very bad, horrible thing.

I can't imagine why I personally wouldn't have won the game by some other means beforehand.  Unless I was being very lazy, or imposed an artificial restriction on myself.

Transcendence in other fictions doesn't mean loss of individuality.  For instance, in Stargate Atlantis.  One does have to renounce interference in the affairs of this universe, and that is a big, recurring problem for certain Transcendii.

[Hierophant]

Interesting. I would love to argue the point with you, but this is not a philosophy message board, so I will refrain! But a little roleplaying has never hurt anyone. I would never use nerve stapling, for example. I suppose that's another topic for a thread- "what are things you don't do because of roleplaying" or something like that.

[bvanevery]

This board has a philosophy?  Is that like Ethical Calculus or something?  There's no rule here against expressing an opinion.  Only about not getting nasty about it.

Maybe it says something about me personally, that I'm willing to play the role of an exterminator, a callous genocidal maniac who will gas or nuke everyone into oblivion, but I won't allow my individuality as a leader to be erased.  Nor for the collective individuality of humanity to be erased.

Or maybe it doesn't say that much at all.  My vision of humanity certainly continues, in the roles I play.  I do not play the role of a doomsday cult that wipes out humanity.  That's what Transcendence is.

If there was an explicit "everybody must die, including yourself" victory condition, I could roleplay that faction.  That game would need a lot more supporting narrative materials though.  It's definitely not this game.

In this game it's like the "everybody must be a moron, and drink the Kool Aid" victory condition.

Didn't anyone else watch Logan's Run?  "Festival is a lie!"

[Hierophant]

Oh no, I was saying the opposite, that this board is NOT about philosophy, and therefore I don't want to bog it down with that kind of discussion.

[Nexii]

In the novelization it's explained that not all humans decided to transcend. In fact by transcending you prevent a mass cyclical extinction of Planet life. It's implied humans would also die in this extinction if you don't help Planet break the cycle by helping it reach enlightment. The latter is in the game lore.

Though on the topic of RP gameplay, I was considering to play factions based on their Agenda. In other words you can only pick the faction's agenda or Frontier, Simple, etc. in their agenda category. And perhaps trying to play more pacifist for pacifist faction (always accept truce/treaty), more aggressive on aggressive factions (always war). Erratic maybe flip a coin I'm not sure.

[Buster's Uncle]

-As far as holding an argument debate, well, the management believes in letting the conversation go where it wants, provided it's not somewhere 'nasty' - and this is certainly a relevant topic.  I could always split the thread, one of you could start a new one here, or take it to Rec Commons.  It's all good, as long as no one's annoyed by burying the original topic...