Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most

[Earthmichael]

The Lord's Believers is the weakest faction by far with a game against another player.  It is still winnable against the computer, but why bother after you have won once with the Believers just to prove to yourself it is possible.  Cult of Planet is the only faction in the same ballpark of weakness, and it is still playable with the right partnership.  No partnership can strengthen the Believers.

All of the other factions are playable, particularly with the right combinations of partnerships.  Although Hive is weak by themselves due to the research penalty, a team game with University is a very powerful combination.  And there are plenty of other similarly powerful partnerships.  That's why one of my favorite ways to play is my 2 faction partnership against my opponent human's 2 faction partnership.  But leave Believer's and Cult out of the mix unless you are trying to handicap yourself.

[Yitzi]

The Lord's Believers is the weakest faction by far with a game against another player.

I would think that in a 1v1 with reasonably close starting positions they'd be fairly strong, due to having both large armies (thanks to the SUPPORT bonus) and an attack bonus.

No partnership can strengthen the Believers.

Not even Morgan or Zak who's willing to give tech in exchange for protection?

Obviously, a Believers builder game is going to be difficult, but it seems they'd be good at momentum play...

[Chilldude]

Although Hive is weak by themselves due to the research penalty, a team game with University is a very powerful combination.

  Is there a research penalty for the Hive? Or are you referring to the economy penalty as being a research penalty due to the decreased energy available for allocation?

[Yitzi]

Although Hive is weak by themselves due to the research penalty, a team game with University is a very powerful combination.

  Is there a research penalty for the Hive? Or are you referring to the economy penalty as being a research penalty due to the decreased energy available for allocation?

Probably a combination of the economy penalty and the tendency to run 0 EFFIC.  They have no actual RESEARCH penalty.

[Soyweiser]

Poor misunderstood Yang only wants to take humanity to new heights. Together enough humans with the right know how have limitless potential! Alone I am a man; Together we are GOD! Why worship vengeful father figures from the past or unseen spirits when the power to move mountains, rain fire from the skies, travel the heavens and even defy the laws of that supposed father are all within reach of a humanity given purpose and focus through the loss of self. (except for the upper classes of course! Somebody has to think for humanity)

Giving up your individuality does not mean you cannot think. Is it ever implied Yang would not undergo the same procedures?

[Chilldude]

Giving up your individuality does not mean you cannot think. Is it ever implied Yang would not undergo the same procedures?

To be honest I have no idea. For some reason I have always had the impression that the complete loss of self to the whole by his citizens was an end goal of Yang's. Yang would of course ensure his own freedom of action and thought or at the very least that his was the mind in control of any total hivemind. I can't recall if either case is supported anywhere, but I will keep an eye out.

[Bertilak]

I am uncertain as to exactly what Yang's end goal for the faction was beyond advocating extreme self-deprivation, and performing genetic experimentation to make his citizens better acclimated to their roles.

[Chilldude]

One last Hive-ish thought.

While casually looking for an answer to whether Yang would himself undergo the modifications devised for the Hive citizens, I found a quote that I'm sure we've all heard a thousand times but that I read in a new light:

"Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."

While still very open to interpretation this to me implies an loss of material and spiritual self.  The loss of greed, jealousy, fanaticism, corruption and any other human concept that values the gain of one over the many. The very first sentence in this quote however exemplifies the dastardly way Yang sought to reach what otherwise might have been a noble goal. Shame on him.

I am uncertain as to exactly what Yang's end goal for the faction was beyond advocating extreme self-deprivation, and performing genetic experimentation to make his citizens better acclimated to their roles.

While I can think of a few reasons why, from our current societies point of view, what you said is exactly true; to me deprivation implies an unavailable necessity though. You don't need a car if society is designed for you to have available transit when required. You don't need money or status symbols if all goods are free. The loss of self is not the same as depriving oneself. I know there has been no successful example of such a society on our little rock but thats part of what makes the concept so intriguing!

But I digress, there I'm done. No more madness on the subject from me 

[Nexii]

Yes agree with EM, Believers are the weakest by far.  It's mainly from their 10 turns of no research.  This puts them 2 techs behind which is much more detrimental since Impact/Plasma/Rover are so important for early aggression.  Even the pacifist factions can run over them 1 on 1 in the early game.  I mod flat unit costs and while this makes FANATIC into a relevant bonus, it also hurts them since it's harder for them to get better weapon and armor techs.  So what then is the best fix thematically for Believers?  PROBE/SUPPORT just aren't as important early as RESEARCH.  I had thought FANATIC working against alien life might boost them a decent amount.  I thought about other options like free Recreation Commons (as worship is important to them) or one more starter tech (Applied Physics or Planetary Networks?).

[Yitzi]

Yes agree with EM, Believers are the weakest by far.  It's mainly from their 10 turns of no research.  This puts them 2 techs behind which is much more detrimental since Impact/Plasma/Rover are so important for early aggression.  Even the pacifist factions can run over them 1 on 1 in the early game.  I mod flat unit costs and while this makes FANATIC into a relevant bonus, it also hurts them since it's harder for them to get better weapon and armor techs.  So what then is the best fix thematically for Believers?  PROBE/SUPPORT just aren't as important early as RESEARCH.  I had thought FANATIC working against alien life might boost them a decent amount.  I thought about other options like free Recreation Commons (as worship is important to them) or one more starter tech (Applied Physics or Planetary Networks?).

The other possible fix would be that I could almost certainly make the "turns of no research at -RESEARCH or lowest difficulty" be moddable...

[Nexii]

Yea, making the no research turns penalty separate from -RESEARCH would work too - assuming you mean removing just the 10 turns of no research from Believers.  I think the Believers are actually fine middle and late game.  But getting there is very difficult.  Bad early game usually means weak all game due to exponential growth rates.

[Mart]

...  Bad early game usually means weak all game due to exponential growth rates.

Exponential growth rates could be "modded out"
They break late game, as it is not so fun (micro)managing it, I think.
I have impression, they were in such a hurry when making the game, they did not balance late game.

[Nexii]

A lot of things aren't balanced in the unmodded game, but would agree generally.  The AI doesn't play well in the late game.

What parts of the game are tedious to micromanage?

[Yitzi]

Yea, making the no research turns penalty separate from -RESEARCH would work too - assuming you mean removing just the 10 turns of no research from Believers.

Making it separate would be harder.  I was thinking just allow it to be changed whether it's 10 turns or 5 turns or 2 turns or 0 turns...or 20 or 50 turns, for that matter.

...  Bad early game usually means weak all game due to exponential growth rates.

Exponential growth rates could be "modded out"
They break late game, as it is not so fun (micro)managing it, I think.
I have impression, they were in such a hurry when making the game, they did not balance late game.

Modding out exponential growth would be fairly difficult, though (although I think it's only exponential in the early game, and then slows down to quartic, cubic, or even quadratic.)

A lot of things aren't balanced in the unmodded game, but would agree generally.  The AI doesn't play well in the late game.

What parts of the game are tedious to micromanage?

I hear terraforming is a pain with the high number of formers, but I actually came up with an interesting idea to deal with that (as well as other former-related issues): Rather than have formers be able to terraform for free, have terraforming substantially (depending on the type of terraforming) increase the support of the formers doing it, with the extra support working like convoyed-away resources (so it's the first to be ditched if there's not enough and won't cause disbanding, but can't be removed via SUPPORT rating or clean).  Then Super Formers and Weather Paradigm could decrease this extra cost instead of time taken (perhaps -1 for weather paradigm, and halved for super formers), and terraforming time decreased accordingly.  Less terraforming time, but more support cost, means fewer formers, means less micromanagement.  (It also makes it easier to mod for balance.)

[Nexii]

Yea, making the 5 turns of no research per -RESEARCH into a moddable variable would work.  If Believers didn't have this penalty then they'd be more competitive.

Far as growth, exponential probably wasn't the right word.  Growth does need to be quadratic or so.  Changing that would disrupt the whole game as there should always be that economic vs military tradeoff in all stages.  If growth is more linear then the game stagnates and becomes a lot more focused on war than building up.  Similarly if growth rate is too high then war is never worth the risk.  I'd actually say there isn't much issue here.  It's more that quadratic growth means a quadratic increase in former count, because terraforming your land is the main growth bottleneck (the other being infrastructure/drone control).  I think that there should have been more than just one former upgrade (Super) throughout the game, and perhaps a better way to queue up former commands.  But those would be big changes.