« Last post by Buster's Uncle on July 10, 2025, 07:54:50 pm »
Wrath is the last thing I really enjoyed, is all. The rest of the movies followed the things I didn't love in it, w/o any of the being good movies.
First season TNG was nearly pure phail, and then the Berman clique took over, and them cats appear to hold Star Trek in contempt, and they're not very good writers, either. I actually thought the last season of TNG was getting better, so of course they stopped there. DS9 was further off-mission, and got way further off halfway through, Voyager was hampered by being bad, Enterprise was inept in all the ways all the previous revivals failed, until the last season got a lot better and they quit making it again.
Nothing since is worth even discussing, and I've only seen the '09 abomination of it all. Strange New Worlds being an exception, I'm universally told, but haven't seen it.
I done been burned too. many. times.
-This is the flame-bait that has caught your interest, and I don't wanna talk about much.
« Last post by bvanevery on July 10, 2025, 07:50:16 pm »
BU, you are tone policing, not welcoming. You're doing it in "my" thread too. Offering it to be my thread, and then boldly asserting that it's your thread, and your site, and that that's the most important thing around here, is cognitively dissonant. You haven't much considered how much offense you may be giving me, quite apart from anything I may have innocently said about volcanoes. I don't owe you or anyone else an apology or groveling about volcanoes.
In fact you seem very much inclined to precipitate a drama, when nothing may really have needed looking into. I know that even when I am trying to resolve conflicts in one of my own forums, I don't point fingers and single people out. There have to be clear wrongs for that. Not just intonations that something "could be" wrong.
When you are afraid of something, you can very much manifest what you are afraid of, by your actions. It's important to be mindful of one's fears; for instance, "Someone may take offense in my forum." You lay down the law with people, you're gonna find people leave and don't look back.
« Last post by bvanevery on July 10, 2025, 07:40:42 pm »
I just have no clue why you, or anyone for that matter, would draw some bright line in the sand after The Wrath Of Khan. Sounds deeply illogical.
Finding fault with some part of TNG, sure. There's a reason Grow The Beard is a meme. And maybe some of those original cast movie scripts were clunky and goofy too. But in the broad sweep, I just don't get your thesis.
Maybe I would if I was old enough, to have firsthand observed arguments about TOS vs. TNG. You are slightly older than me. I was in college and busy with my studies when a lot of TNG happened. No time to dwell on it. It was the show that packed the communal TV room in my dorm.
« Last post by Buster's Uncle on July 10, 2025, 07:28:35 pm »
Message received in that thread.
Since trying to talk it out got me an act of defiance, the bottom line is, I WILL act if there are any more messages there. I spoke English, and this ain't okay.
That's cultural hegemony. You like everyone else are going to die. Guiding your actions by your genitals or your pocketbook is hardly the only way to be. Which raises big questions, about why these messages of "what your priorities should be" are so dominant. I know the answers. Sex sells, and capitalists want you to look at everything as transactional.
« Last post by Buster's Uncle on July 10, 2025, 07:22:14 pm »
Who's waving a cape? The knobbies are there whether I like it or not, and that's my take. Making Sense Of It is a game as old as fandom, and I'm no better.
« Last post by bvanevery on July 10, 2025, 07:08:28 pm »
I don't like Watsonian contortions, so I'm more inclined to use Doylist perspective and be done with it.
We know that transporters have some technical and cultural holes in them, for instance, because they were a production budget expedient. It was expensive to do shuttle sequences, they couldn't do that every episode. So now we've had to live with their various illogics, forever.
Until The Orville came along, in a different era where CGI shuttles are no problem at all. So they dispensed with teleporters, as bad science, too much on the side of Woo. There are also no mind powers in The Orville for the same reason. They have a deliberately secularist subtext and don't abide things that get in the way of it. Much. Someone might be inclined to point out an exception but nothing is leaping to my mind.
The Doylist perspective on the "fish people" in Discovery, is it's some brainchild of the J.J. Abrams set. Writers who don't like Star Trek at all and want to turn it into a Star Wars cash machine. They managed to sell their dire do-over to some Suits. I doubt anyone around here is gonna prove me wrong. One of the reasons I had to bow out of the very large r/startrek community, is I can't abide people who thought Discovery S1 was appropriate or acceptable . Such people don't know and don't care what Star Trek is, or was.
Since then, I've seen a rather long documentary series on one of the streaming services, that lends credence to my point of view. There was a sort of TNG era with particular show writers. They got clobbered after CBS bought stuff. Things had a particular style of writing to them, and subsequent corporate execs didn't care about any of that. Trek wasn't even basically a cultural fit to CBS execs, is my limited understanding. Trek was a brand they wanted to make money off of.
Mind you, if you think this is a way of waving a red cape in front of your nose, I am very much a TOS fan. It's what I grew up with, and I think it's the legitimate thing Trek comes from. That said, I think the TNG era is perfectly good Trek. Picard is a real captain, just different from Kirk. Data is in no way inferior to Spock at all. I love them both, as basically similar archetypes. I grew up practicing one eyebrow raises in the mirror until I could do it.
Like the TNG episode that clowns the Fu Manchu Klingons, using footage from TOS "The Trouble With Tribbles". Whorf states in anger, "We do not speak of it!!"
And when the hourglass has run out, the hourglass of temporality, when the noise of secular life has grown silent and its restless or ineffectual activism has come to an end, when everything around you is still, as it is in eternity, then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
~Soren Kierkegaard 'The Sickness Unto Death', Datalinks
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