Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Destination: Alpha Centauri => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on December 22, 2014, 05:59:16 pm

Title: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 22, 2014, 05:59:16 pm

NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
The Verge
By Elizabeth Lopatto on December 22, 2014 10:21 am


A way to explore Venus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0az7DEwG68A#ws)



Venus might be closer to Earth, but that doesn't make it easier to explore than Mars. For starters, the surface of Venus has the pressure of 92 of Earth's atmospheres, to say nothing of the temperatures — which can reach more than 900 degrees Fahrenheit (500 degrees C), heat that can melt lead. But two NASA scientists, Dale Arney and Chris Jones, suggest we skip the surface altogether and stick to Venus's clouds, according to a report in IEEE Spectrum.

To do so would require big policy changes at NASA, which has been promoting crewed Mars missions as part of its Orion program. But these scientists say that the atmosphere of Venus, explored by an airship, may be more hospitable to human missions. Enter the High Altitude Venus Operational Concept, or Havoc.

About 31 miles (50 km) above Venus' surface, the gravity is only slightly lower than Earth's, and the atmospheric pressure is about the same. What's more, Venus is better shielded from radiation than Mars — exposure to radiation in Venus' atmosphere would be "about the same as if you were in Canada," Arney told IEEE Spectrum. In other words, floating above Venus' surface is attractive because it's more Earth-like.

The vehicle designed to explore the atmosphere is a helium-filled airship that runs on solar power. The idea is to send a robotic version, followed by a larger, crewed version. The airship would have to be folded up inside a spacecraft to get there, with humans following in a separate vehicle. The plan even includes a suggested space colony, floating in the clouds.

The Venus idea is appealing in part because the planet is closer, and could provide experience with technology that would be necessary to get humans to Mars: habitats for crew members, carbon dioxide processing, aerobraking, and other things required to allow humans survive a trip to another planet. "If you did Venus first, you could get a leg up on advancing those technologies and those capabilities ahead of doing a human-scale Mars mission," Jones told IEEE Spectrum. "It’s a chance to do a practice run, if you will, of going to Mars."


http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/22/7433751/nasa-scientists-propose-sending-humans-to-the-skies-of-venus (http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/22/7433751/nasa-scientists-propose-sending-humans-to-the-skies-of-venus)

Title: Re: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Geo on December 22, 2014, 08:25:30 pm

Someone's been dreaming about Bespin again. :P
I like the modular mission concept shown in the video, but feel its quite risky to rely on a floating bag to avoid smashing into the surface of the planet.

Title: Re: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Unorthodox on December 23, 2014, 02:03:53 pm

Do we really know enough about the weather at the proposed altitude to even consider a floating city?

Title: Re: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Geo on December 23, 2014, 03:27:16 pm

Quote from: Unorthodox on December 23, 2014, 02:03:53 pm

Do we really know enough about the weather at the proposed altitude to even consider a floating city?

Venus' atmosphere has fierce winds. IIRC, clouds can circle the globe in 4 days, but I don't know at what altitude that is.
ESA's Venus Express circled the planet for 8 years. Can't find its atmospheric observation result atm.

Title: Re: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Unorthodox on December 23, 2014, 05:13:52 pm

Yes, the winds remain somewhat constant and there doesn't seem to be a storm pattern as on Earth, since the surface remains more or less constant.  So, assuming these solar powered blimps can withstand the wind, and keep pace to stay in the sun going, they will also need to contend with what weather Venus DOES have:  Lightning storms. 

On Earth these can reach well up into the upper atmosphere, and the effects of lighting and sprites on the upper atmosphere is just barely being studied. 

Title: Re: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Geo on December 23, 2014, 06:05:06 pm

Quote from: Unorthodox on December 23, 2014, 05:13:52 pm

Yes, the winds remain somewhat constant and there doesn't seem to be a storm pattern as on Earth, since the surface remains more or less constant.  So, assuming these solar powered blimps can withstand the wind, and keep pace to stay in the sun going, they will also need to contend with what weather Venus DOES have:  Lightning storms. 

On Earth these can reach well up into the upper atmosphere, and the effects of lighting and sprites on the upper atmosphere is just barely being studied.

Well, on Earth there's no severe track record of aircraft dropping from the sky because of lightning strikes. And there are literally hundreds of thousands of flights each year.

Title: Re: NASA scientists propose sending humans to the skies of Venus
Post by: Unorthodox on December 24, 2014, 01:15:05 am

Quote from: Geo on December 23, 2014, 06:05:06 pm

Well, on Earth there's no severe track record of aircraft dropping from the sky because of lightning strikes. And there are literally hundreds of thousands of flights each year.

Blimps are not generally flying aluminum tubes, and thus have significantly less favorable track record with lightening. 

Plus, we are talking alien lightening of unknown (to my knowledge) potential, and potentially positive lightening, the kind which potentially played a part in the Columbia disaster.  The strike itself might not even be the actual danger supposing we make these into floating faraday cages.